ogake

Back to Aard

2004-09-04T01:27:20Z

So I logged into Aard again for the first time since it went down during the hurricane. Could have done that a week earlier but I wanted one nice lazy Saturday morning to reacquaint myself with the Mud.

Once on, I realized my mud reflexes were gone so I spent my time catching up on a lot of messages instead of levelling or questing. Will be up to my old form in a few days, no rush.

Missed seeing Xeno or Abelinc, the online oracles, fielding newbie questions. They must be out having RL fun or something :)

Dance or Die

2004-08-18T01:13:53Z

Browsing the Wow Forums I came across this thread about an incident where a group of (guy) players surrounded a lower level (female player) druid on the PvP players and gaver her the ultimatum to strip & dance or die :

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=210238&P=1

Unfortunately, there was no GM around till later so they kept killing her character over and over trying to force her to strip -- all the while she was asking them to stop.

Aard Vacation

2004-08-17T10:05:57Z

It won't be till next week that Aard will be back online so this will be my chance to tackle the CR guide, the preparation of materials for the website and other mudlife stuff that's been put onhold in my rush to lev 100.

I need to start grouping, badly -- half of the class equation is knowing how to combine your skills effectively with another player. At the worst, levelling with a bad player teaches you how to compensate and increases your capacity for patience :)

Browsing the WoW forums have given me ideas about my future morts. All those Warrior vs. Paladin threads have nearly convinced me that the way to go in this Wolfen form is :

Ranger --> Warrior --> Paladin

Then probably Thief or Mage for the 4th. I think I'll have an easier time than my friend who took the Paladin/Ranger route even in my Ranger/Warrior incarnation. I'm lookin forward to my duels then, it should be a lot of fun kicking butt and getting my butt kicked and learning all the lessons in between.

Drawn In

2004-08-17T05:30:25Z

Aard has this insidious way of drawing you in little by little till it creeps into your non-Mud life. Just asked AardDarkie to include me in that circle of Yahoo AardJunkies who not only hobnob online but sing each other's ears off while doing so :)

While my voice can stun/bash anyone within 10 meters in 3 seconds flat, my wife on the other hand is a treat to listen to -- assuming my crappy modem connection does a decent job.

She celebrated her birthday today and the whole clan, from the grandma to the little kids, sat down to 10ish brunch consisting of hungarian sausages, potato salad, coffee and small buns. In many ways it's a small miracle she's still around, her health was so bad a few years ago.

While she generally hates the games I play (she abhors violence), Aard is ok in her books probably because more social interaction takes place there than anything else. She still hates it though when my pet linux emotes "feels abandoned and leaves" whenever I quit, she has this thing about pets and stuff.

I didn't even dare touch the Winnie-the-Pooh mob in the Crystalmir area early in the game, I'd never have heard the end of it :)

Mud Economies

2004-08-16T00:21:00Z

Have been a refugee at the Wow forums for the past few days due to Aard being down, it was good to see Lasher's post at TMC (IWuvaard site had an announcement too) and know they're all ok despite the hurricane.

The following is an excellent post about Mud economies on Wow's general forum, it shows pretty clearly how delicate the mechanisms are :

EQ = EverQuest

=====================

Barraind

Level 50 Human Paladin
Guild: The Elitists
Server: Beta Server

153. Re: Patch Sneak Peek | 8/14/2004 10:42:24 AM GMTDT

Q u o t e:
They can gather all the resources for their trades, which hurts the economy. One thing that keeps an MMORPG going for a long time is a strong economy.

lol?

What MMO has ever had a strong economy? (unless of course you mean the effect on the economy via ebay and pa)

A rundown on how MMO economies work when applied to tradeskills:

1. People who dont craft farm non-vendorbought tradeskill components selling them for asinine amounts (the crafters, of course, use their resources, so they rarely, if ever, see sale)

2. Traders marking up prices to compensate for said prices.

3. Gatherers marking up prices again to compensate for having to pay more (people who try to hustle tradespeople arent the smartest lot, its a lesson we have been reminded of time and time again).

As the first smith on an EQ server able to make cultural armor, I made decent money for roughly 6 months, until there were more than 3 of us total. Smithing was the ONLY tradeskill that popped much of a profit. Tailoring did to a far lesser extent, as you could make "great" money at lower levels making 10 slot bags (a few silver max), and at higher levels, could make passable armor for some leel ranges.

People started going "hey, wait a minute! I can get rich off these guys by selling them materials". It worked... for a little bit. Some of us skillers raided and grinded fulltime, left no time to go farm materials. Easy enough to pay 8-900 plat per success (40% fail rate and 350-500 per attempt) of an item we could (at the time) sell for 3k wasnt too bad.

Then come people who think "We can charge a lot more!". You suddenly have to pay 1k+ per attempt, at recipies that have a 40% guaranteed fail rate at the top end. You can still turn a small profit, but theres generally no reason to make product to bazaar, you only make when people will pay 70-125k per set, and you can get the mats for a full set at one time.

The problem comes when you realize the market. The absolute BEST items you made were great for people who werent raiding much. These people also rarely had the cash to spend on armor. The people who could easily afford the product had no reason to buy it.

Now, you have a system where supply is infinitely higher than demand. Prices dont fall (there isnt anywhere for them to fall to, were at the point you are only making money on a 100% rate, which you dont get), people simply stop buying new raw goods.

Raw good sales start to suck. As in, what used to sell instantly now sits on bazaar bots for months at a time, because there is no need for it. Rare ingrediants you need for a tradeskill recipie arent worth a damn thing when people are farming the zones worth of mobs that drop them, causing them to be not rare.

People who used to turn money by selling these items suddenly lost their entire markets. They werent able to buy items, so the people they bought from ("some", the rest are daytraders and unaffected by this chain of events). Markets crash...

Well, not really. Its not that bad for the most part.

You do however have the following golden rules, all trying to impose authority at once:

1. Golden rule of Crafting: A tradeskiller cannot produce anything better than a challenging group mob will drop, nor anything greater than a raid mob will drop, unless your raw material comes from said encounters. Those items STILL cannot be better than current content raids. (or theres no reason to have raids, which defeats the purpose of a next-gen MMO)

2. Golden rule of Gathering: A gatherer will always try to turn the biggest possible profit from a tradeskiller, who is obviously rich. (despite only a couple ever getting rich off tskills)

3. Golden rule of Mudflation: Items always have to get better. Progression must always go upwards from trivial group content to challeging raid content.

4. Golden rule of High-End Crafts: The best playermade items, usually better than past raid content (easily farmed), will be desired by many, have larger cash requirements than any other tradeskilled item, and will be mostly unaffordable, when including purchace costs, to the people who can use them.

What this boils down to?

Forcing tradeskillers to buy ANY number of items from gatherers causes the economy to nosedive faster than allowing tradeskillers to gather their own raw material.

You might think WoW has some magical formula to keep things from ending up like that, but it doesnt. The "true" way to prevent this is to make tradeskillers and gatherers a necessity, where both can provide their skills for a small gain on the tradeskilelrs part, letting him restock to continue the cycle... but this requires item decay, incredibly harsh item requirements, more expendable items (in terms of "everyone in this game has a gun, uses ammo, lobs hand grenades and munition crafting is a tradeskill, salvaging is a gathering skill, and no single person can do both [still easy to work around too, no matter how you want to stop it]"), and a grand host of other features the WoW community would lynch you for even thinking of suggesting (a community that reacts violently to 2.5 minute boat rides is far beyond the point of understanding why very few people in an MMO should ever have a cash flow greater than a small percentage above what they are required to spend on food, water, basic weapons, and skills).

Economies in MMO's arent meant to sustain an expansion. The first time a level cap is raised, the first time better gear enters the world, the first time a crafter can make better items... your economy goes boom. Barraind

Hybrid vs. Pure Class thread on WoW

2004-08-15T05:04:25Z

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=174988&p=1#post174988

The classic argument crosses boundaries, from muds like Aard to graphical online games like Wow.

Why MUDs still matter

2004-08-15T04:22:09Z

A great MUDS thread on WOW (World of Warcraft) forum of all places.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=167590&p=1#post167590

Tiers & Nukes

2004-08-13T11:24:29Z

Lasher posted note just now with a list of high tier players that were just nuked due to botting. You can sort of understand why people are tempted to bot, tiering must be boring to tears as you mow down mob after mob after mob in the slow, slow climb to T9.

If it wasn't for the Clan PK system, people wouldn't even bother to tier - what's the point? By the time you reach your 3x-4x mort you're powerful enough to challenge Ivar, probably the toughest mob on the mud. It doesn't even make sense to combine all the classes, even when people do it's just to take those 2-3 very nice skills/spells indispensable to PK.

How many people even know how to properly combine the skill pool of 3 classes? Damn few, as one vet once mentioned to me - clueless tiers are not unknown :)

Gate crashing the Monastery

2004-08-13T03:48:07Z

Made my first foray into the Monastery and found out that it's cheek to cheek with Dortmund. If I can't find a good plant transportable mob in the monk hangout then I'll find one in the lower level area. Being face to face with an angry jungle elephant was a bit of a surprise , seemed out of place with the theme.

Place is full of devout mobs, it's a good levelling place for evil aligned players. Some of the denizens though are neutral or evil so visiting the place isn't a waste of time. Wagonmaster, martial arts teachers and some monks give decent to very good exp. Best of all, it isn't crowded - hardly anyone goes there. Recommended for 90+ players.

I was disappointed with the lack of any real shops, was hoping I could contribute something new to the Iwuvaard EQ database. But the Tanto, a good dagger with nice stats, will be mine soon *G*

The Ranger in WOW

2004-08-11T10:19:15Z

http://worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter.shtml

Great emphasis on pets, ranged combat and oh yes - the Ranger here can create potions. Unique take on the class, well worth the look.

And of course, a Paladin overview :

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=3355&p=1#post3355

It would be interesting to see if any of these will fit into Aard.

Interesting Balance issue in WOW

2004-08-11T09:45:07Z

World of Warcraft of course :) The thread below is an involved discussion of what needs to be done for the Paladin to be a more viable player in the game. I've gone over the thread and the fundmental flaw seems to be that the Paladin, in this context, has many abilities geared towards fighting the undead and all his other talents have been reduced to balance this strength.

The concept of being specially effective against *evil* mobs may not be in the game, this more than anything makes the Paladin a very viable class in Aard.

Fascinating discussion.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread-search.aspx?ForumName=wow-paladin&Author=Ibronka&Cluster=WoW

Potions

2004-08-10T04:43:26Z

I've been setting up an arrangement with my cleric friend to custom design some potions for me. I need something to complement my fav Clan potion. He's tried doing triple or dual brews but it takes at least 50 attempts before successfully making one (around 15-20K in expenses). So I'm settling for single brews.

The average lifetime of the product at his level (90+) is about 5,000+ ticks so that should last a while. More of a problem is keeping up with his level as creating lower level potions is not an option. I tend to play more in the weekends so there's a good chance he'll outlevel me soon.

Frankly i prefer this method, I miss the human interaction as you discuss ,a rgue and haggle the type and cost of the brews you want made. Buying all your stuff from shop mobs is so cold and impersonal.

Will have a big batch made soon, I'm making a foray into the Monastery which seems like an interesting place.

Wolf Spirits

2004-08-08T07:31:16Z

Just got the best spell in whole Ranger arsenal, at level 93 here are the effects with my stats :

sets affect detect_evil for 6 hours
sets affect detect_magic for 6 hours
sets affect detect_hidden for 6 hours
modifies armor class by 67 for 6 hours
modifies damage roll by 31 for 6 hours
modifies hit roll by 31 for 6 hours

It's not sanc but layered with that protective spell the combo absolutely kicks butt.

Book of Blades - rough notes

2004-08-07T10:16:41Z

I really wish I had paid more attention to weapon combos before i hit 80. But here are good weapons (some from a non-clan store!) that kick butt once you hit the 70-80 up range. Skipped the Aardweapon till level 120 intentionally, really want to get a good feel of mudload weapons as any decent ranger should.

70 Erato's Awakener of Desire from Bard Clan shop
flaming whip (wreaks havok on Anthrox trolls and vamps)

81 Terpsichore's Whirling Lyre (Bard)
cleave and vorpal

85 Sunblade (Dark Light, Orionis Weapon shop)

slash with flaming flag, ave 117 dmg!

With the SunBlade as your primary, you can wield Erato or the Lyre in your off hand which is damn effective.

The level 90 Trusty Sword from the Regular Patron at Jenny's Tavern is useful in getting more hits on elusive targets - +10 HR and adds +3 to 3rd/4th/5th attack as well.

Backtracking to StoneKeep for the level 80 rusty broadsword for it's nodisarm, 100+ dmg and bash damage.

Ranger levelling Areas

2004-08-01T07:53:57Z

Doom & Gloom
Goblin Fortress
Castle Vlad
Jenny's Tavern (at 70 take on shady char, at 75 take on wino - all vuln to solar flare)

Why Rangers sux

2004-08-01T07:47:33Z

an extract of a Ranger channel dialogue on why Rangers sux. And it all began with a simple good night :)

=============================================================

Grundam grapevines: 'Night rangers!'

Shadowedge grapevines: 'later'

Kini grapevines: 'night!-'

(Grapevine) Ironkzinti Chuft declares no wuv for rangers!

Tactful Ticktock grapevines: 'night'

You grapevine: 'night grundam'

You grapevine: '(tickles Chuft)'

Ironkzinti Chuft grapevines: 'ahhh..almost free of this horrific ranger tier'

Kini grapevines: 'thank freakin god'

(Grapevine) Ironkzinti Chuft sniffs sadly at the way Kini is treating him.

Lin grapevines: 'rangers are cool'

You grapevine: 'what made it so bad - just curious '

Ironkzinti Chuft grapevines: 'single mort ranger is painfully bad :P'

You grapevine: 'taking notes for my Ranger website. which race did you take for your first mort ranger?'

Kini grapevines: 'diva :D'

Ironkzinti Chuft grapevines: 'single mort ranger is painfully bad :P'

You grapevine: '(thinking of Gaga , who did shade. bad mistake)'

Shadowedge grapevines: 'no, it's pretty good. we have attacks and spells'

Never look Mach grapevines: 'same here :)'

Mt. Craigath grapevines: 'Rat'

Dolt grapevines: 'ratling here'

Tactful Ticktock grapevines: 'Go divas :p'

You grapevine: 'diva seems to be a good choice. ditto ratling'

Never look Mach grapevines: 'diva ranger is the best first mort there is'

Kini grapevines: 'only bad thing about diva is +1 wis'

Kini grapevines: 'but its not nearly as bad as wolfens'

Seralis grapevines: 'lizard =)'

Ironkzinti Chuft grapevines: 'I was a centaur ranger at sc'

Manx grapevines: 'diva hear'

Kini grapevines: 'centuar is possibly the best for ranger.. statwise'

Manx grapevines: 'and i just ate the dust'

Ironkzinti Chuft grapevines: 'rangers have neither decent attacks nor decent spells, damn spells tickle the mobs to death and only get up to third attack'

You grapevine: 'centaur seems to be decent. must be the 'crappy' attack spells.
everybody i know who took ranger as first mort just dumped the attack spells in their second mort'

(Grapevine) Kini nods at you in agreement.

Dolt grapevines: 'they do get the dual attacks though'

Shadowedge grapevines: 'actually we get 4 with dual wield and we have all healing except for cure critical'

You grapevine: 'this is all going on record btw under the section "Why Rangers sux ":)'

Ironkzinti Chuft grapevines: 'so do all the other fighting classes'

(Grapevine) Ironkzinti Chuft smirks.

You grapevine: 'got to tell the story from both sides :0'

Ironkzinti Chuft grapevines: 'it's 6 attacks, actually, out of 8 I have currently..quite aware of what rangers get :P'

Shadowedge grapevines: 'but see we're not a fighting class'

You grapevine: 'we aren't ?'

Shadowedge grapevines: 'nope we're in the same category as paladins whatever that is'

Ironkzinti Chuft grapevines: 'sucky class'

Ironkzinti Chuft grapevines: 'next tier I'll spend 7 morts bitching on paladin instead
'
Tactful Ticktock grapevines: 'So if ranger is such a horrible class, what should my next mort be to make up for the suckiness of being a ranger?'

Kini grapevines: 'cleric, psi'

Ironkzinti Chuft grapevines: 'mage'

Kini grapevines: 'mage, thief'

Kini grapevines: 'anything but paladin'

Anatoly grapevines: 'yes, be a class with more spellup spells'

Tactful Ticktock grapevines: 'Aight sounds good, thanks'

You grapevine: 'i think some people have a warrior mentality but also want spells. only two classes give that'

You grapevine: 'for the first mort that is'

Kini grapevines: 'paladin attacks are as good as ranger ones'

You grapevine: 'better. Holy fury hits harder than any ranger spell in the same level range'

Dolt grapevines: 'yeah, but if you want melee + spells, you're better going war/mage than an inbetween class like pal or ranger'

Tactful Ticktock grapevines: 'K, say i went Ranger and then mage...what would be a good order for the next 5 morts?'

You grapevine: 'i did a troll paladin experiment. bash works great for that class'

(Grapevine) Ironkzinti Chuft looks at Dolt and chants, "H! E! R! O!... Dolt is my
Hero!!!"

Tactful Ticktock grapevines: 'I don't know the classes that well'

Kini grapevines: 'i think cleric should be one of your first few always'

Kini grapevines: 'its so worth it'

(Grapevine) Tactful Ticktock nods.

Interesting Cross-Gender RP thread

2004-07-30T03:12:04Z

http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=6&t=96

The discussion above got me thinking of the Amazons on Aard. No, I'm not thinking of applying but done right RP must add a lively dimension to any clan :)

Paladins & Rangers

2004-07-29T11:05:20Z

Nargy , my Paladin/Ranger/Cleric friend, contributed a critical section on Naked CRing on the mudboards. It covers several areas I didn't think of and has a very helpful what-to-do-and-not. Very well done. I'll file it later as a comment under the original Naked CR notes somewhere so all the stuff stays in one place.

If I wasn't so intent on retaining my Wolfen race next mort, I'd seriously consider being a Paladin. Common mud wisdom is that both suck , and I do know players who've regretted taking Rangers as their first class. However, SpyDy was a SC Paladin for a long time and he's still remembered as being a premier PK hunter/raider. If somebody can take a despised class and make a name doing one of the most difficult specialities in the Mud then that class, definitely, does *not* suck.

I think that it takes a certain kind of mentality to do well in either, and if your pysche and personality don't fit then it's hell.

I've noticed that the Paladin's I've read about or encountered like the Ranger class. And the same holds true with Rangers, I've tried out at least two alt Paladins so far to test race/class combos - enjoyed both experiences. Both sides though , probably, strongly prefer one - just like SpyDy did and it's a good thing that Aard allows you to have more than one class. Otherwise, both Pallies and Rangers would miss out on a lot of good people.

I did the skill/spell matching list for Paladin/Ranger and it's a kick-butt combo. You get healing at level 1 (Paladin Lay Hands), an earlier Cure light (P) and something better than Nature's touch further on. You also get the early Ranger dual wield, plus additional attacks.

Hallowed lights beat Continual Light anytime :)

Bless, Darkness, Protection Evil - all between levels 6 to 9. Cure Blindness at 23, essential not only against blinding mobs but duels.

Mobshield and Sense Life between levels 20-25,Hunt at 30. Does anything get better than this in quests ?

Two pets, dust devil AND Warhorse.

Wolf Spirits AND Sanc.

Plant Transport :)

Protection against Fire and Holy Mirror, counterbalancing all Wolfen weaknesses by the second mort.

But Wolfen's Wis sucks :( This is the Race that casts a spell, and ends up cursing and bringing the Axe into play because the damn incantation sputters.

Warrior next mort, still.

Web work

2004-07-29T05:44:59Z

Logged into Aard, found 50 new notes on the mudboard after being away for a mere 3 hours. Followed the discussions on the open clan shop debate, started getting pissed, posted a note, tore it up, reposted the most constructive thing that came to my mind then left.

I need to buckle down to doing some illustrations for the upcoming Ranger web site. It's going to be very amateurish, but hey, it will be from me and by me. I'll be dragooning people with a lot more artistic skills to help out so people dont' have to suffer unecessarily :)

Book of Runes material 5

2004-07-28T11:34:18Z

Spelling up dust devils and pets:

Brooch of shielding lev 20 (Gauntlet, dead adventurer)
5 x level 10 shield

Wooden stick lev 22 (High Tower of Sorcery, Room :Spellbinder's Cache)
10 x level 20 bless

Pair of chopsticks lev 30 (Temple of White Lotus, kitchen attendant)
6 x level 30 armor

Aquamarine Wand lev 46 (River of Despair, Aquamarine King)
10 x level 45 sanctuary

Mobs charmed by animal friendship can wield weapons and quaff potions but dust devils and pets from petshops cannot.

Book of Runes material 3

2004-07-28T11:16:41Z

Max Mana Dress at 70+

Float : Tin Man's heart lev 63 (+60 Mana)
Hold : ManaVault lev 37 (Dominia, +100 Mana)
Others : Hat, shoes and dress of Wicked Witch of the East (Oz)

Book of Runes material 2

2004-07-28T10:48:54Z

Potion of desertion (mist demon) is lev 50 but casts lev 80 remove curse spells.

Add to Heal potions quaffable while blind :

Soothing Melody (Bards, Peto, lev 40)
4 x lev 40 cure critical

Add to Malediction cancellation :

Drop of royal jelly lev 35 (Labyrinth giant queen bee)
2 x lev 35 cancellation, 2 x lev 35 cure disease

Add to Naked CRs :

Nyo'ei Joriki lev 26 (Dominion)
Level 26 spells of: 'protection good' 'inertial barrier' 'giant strength' 'enhanced strength'.

Book of Runes material

2004-07-28T10:30:32Z

From the iwuvaard database :

Naked and need to do a CR?

* Armourer's Lament potion at Bards (Peto, level 60)

Level 60 spells of: 'flesh armor' 'barkskin' 'stone skin' 'intellect fortress'

plus dual Flame Blades

and add Valour of the Crusader's (Crusaders, Sir Richard)
Lev 53 accelerate, sanc, combat mind

for good measure

Heal potions that can be quaffed even while blind

* Soma (CHaOs leve 60)
* Tranquility's Healing Touch (TaneLorn level 60)
* Jade Elixir (Dominion lev 60)
* Healer's Ballad (Bard, Peto lev 60)
* Brew of Athelas (Seekers, Milo lev 60)
* Eternity (Knights of Perdition, lev 60)
* Blue Gem Extract (Touchstone lev 60)

Need to cancel maledictions ? (and your protective spells:)

* Altairian iced-tea (Star Wars, trill bartender leve 60)
4 x level 70 cancellation

Instant Curse removal
* potion of desertion (Castle Vlad, mist demon)
3 x lev 80 remove curse

Getting to ledges, through locked doors , or underwater caverns
* survival potion (Storm Mountain shop)
lev 48 pass door, fly, underwater breathing

* potion of Maneuverability (Seeker's , Imhotep)
leve 48 pass door, fly, underwater breathing and invis

More website thoughts

2004-07-28T05:40:36Z

I've sent a note to a couple of fellow rangers who're interested in helping out. Major sections I'm interested in putting in so far :

Famous Rangers in Fact and Fiction

Book of Trees
- Plant Transport points and howtos

Book of Skins
-need inputs from high level players here

Book of Paths
-specialized maps for rangers which include fire/spring/portal/forage
points
-speedwalks adapted for us. why speedwalk all the way when you can plant portal from Midgard to a key junction then just walk from there?
- how to explore and map effectively

Book of Companions
- Everything on Dust devils, pets and mobs charmed with animal friendship

Book of Blades
- fighting techniques, weapons, armor

Book of Runes
- spells, wands, potions etc.

Book of Rangers
- player profiles of contributors ,helpers and friends

Lot of work :)

Into the Closet

2004-07-28T03:40:48Z

I went rummaging through the Weapons closet of Castle Vlad, going through about 15 or so items to catalog them for the iwuvaard eq database. Lucky for me I could plant portal back and from New Thalos since lore only works in city or donation areas. It took me 3-4 trips to get the whole thing done. The bipennis (?!) axe turned out to have interesting properties.

It may be a good idea to regularly place these items in the donation room, for people who have to do CR's naked:)

Linarthia sent me to level 70 up area (Stone Kingdom) where I nearly died under the might of a few high level thieves. My regular practice of carrying Nachos paid off, giving me enough time to flee and find a place to safely recall from.

Need to find a website soon, the Plant Transport info alone is getting too unwieldy to post on the mudboards.